"K O M P A G N I E T"

Om livet i ØK EAC skibe.

Side 92

What you can see written in blue, is translation of the story on this site, about the training ship SS København.

Translated by marine engineer: Jesper Th. Petersen Seattle.

 

OBS! - Sidste nyt nederst på siden.

Last news at the bottum on this site.

 

S/S KØBENHAVN

Verdens største skoleskib.

The world’s largest training (sailing) ship.

Størrelsesforhold:
S/S Danmark foran
S/S København.

Picture - size proportion:
S/S Danmark (the current Danish training ship) in front.
S/S København.

 


København søsættes.
København launching.

Skoleskibet København tilhørende ØK, var en femmastet bark (med en B&W dieselmotor 508 HK som hjælpemaskine) søsat 1921, og var verdens største sejlskib.

Fører på skibets første rejse (26. oktober 1921 – 7. november 1922) var kommandørkaptajn og teknisk direktør i Det Østasiatiske Kompagni baron Niels Juel-Brockdorff.

Skibet blev bestilt i 1913, og skroget stod færdigt i 1915, men grundet 1. verdenskrig blev skibet ikke færdigbygget. Skroget blev slæbt til Gibraltar, omdøbt til "Black Dragon" og blev brugt som kuldepot.

Efter 1. verdenskrig blev et nyt skrog bygget efter de oprindelige tegninger, og skibet blev endelig færdigbygget.

Under kaptajn Hans Ferdinand Andersen forsvandt skibet sporløst i december 1928 eller i januar 1929 med 59 mand om bord efter at have forladt Buenos Aires med kurs mod Australien.

Hvad der forårsagede Københavns forlis er aldrig blevet opklaret.

The training ship København, belonging to EAC, was a 5-masted bark (with a B&W 508 hp Diesel engine as its auxiliary engine) launched in 1921, being the world’s largest sailing ship.

The master on the maiden voyage (26th October 1921 – 7th November 1922) was Captain Commander and technical director in the East Asiatic Company (EAC) Baron Niels Juel-Brockdorff.

The ship was commissioned in 1913, and the hull was completed in 1915, but because of World War I the ship was not completed. The hull was towed to Gibraltar, renamed the "Black Dragon" and used as a coal depot.

After World War I, a new hull was built according to the original drawings and the ship was finally completed.

Under Captain Hans Ferdinand Andersen, the ship disappeared without a trace in December 1928 or in January 1929 with 59 men on board after leaving Buenos Aires heading for Australia.

What caused the København shipwreck has never been resolved.

 


København for anker.
 København at ancor.

 


Besøg til det nye skib.
Visit to the new ship.

 


Interessen var stor.
The interest was great.

 


Kong Christian d. X. inspicerer besætningen.
King Christian X inspects the crew.

 


København for fulde sejl.
København at full sails.

 

14. december 1928 sejlede Skoleskibet København fra Argentinas hovedsted Buenos Aires med kurs mod Adelaide, hvor det var forventet omkring 2 måneder senere. Det kom aldrig frem.

 

Godt en uge senere telegraferede Skoleskibet "Alt vel om bord". Det var den sidste melding. Siden da har ingen hørt noget fra verdens største sejlskib. Forliset udløste en stortstilet eftersøgning, men der er aldrig fundet nogen druknede eller vragrester.

 

Østasiatiske Kompagni's karismatiske direktør Etatsråd H.N. Andersen lagde meget vægt på uddannelsen af skibsofficerer. For at styrke uddannelsen, og formodentlig også for at vise omverden, at ØK var blandt de førende rederier, byggede man skoleskibet København.

H. N. Andersen mente ikke at motorskibe kunne give søfolk den krævede hårdførhed og modighed. Den 5 mastede bark, var verdens største sejlførende fartøj, og blev søsat 24. marts 1921 i Skotland.

 

Første rejse var jorden rundt, og den indledes i oktober 1921 og afsluttedes 7. november 1922.

 

På det 10. togt lastede hun byg i Argentina som skulle til Adelaide i Australien. Da hun ikke meldte tilbage efter 2 måneder på søen, begyndte ØK i al diskretion, at eftersøge skibet. Først 28. maj fik man en brugbar melding. En missionær havde den 21. januar 1929 set et meget stort skib, som svarede til København ved Tristan de Cunha (beliggende i Sydatlanten mellem Sydamerikas og Afrikas sydspids).

On 14 December 1928 the training ship København sailed from Argentina's capital, Buenos Aires, heading towards Adelaide, where it was expected about 2 months later. She never arrived.

A week later after the departure the training ship wired: "Everything well on board". That was the last message. Since then, no one has heard anything from the world's largest sailing ship. The shipwreck triggered a large-scale search, but no drowned or debris has ever been found.

The East Asiatic Company's charismatic director Councillor H.N. Andersen placed a lot of emphasis on the training of ship officers. In order to strengthen the training, and presumably also to show the outside world that the EAC was among the leading shipping companies, the training ship København was built

H. N. Andersen did not believe that motorships could provide seafarers with the required hardness and patience. The 5-masted bark was the world's largest sailing ship and was launched 24th of March 1921 in Scotland.

The first voyage was around the world, and it started in October 1921 and ended 7. November 1922.

On the 10th voyage she was loading barley in Argentina, and was going to Adelaide, Australia. When she did not show up after 2 months at sea, the EAC began, in all discretion, to search for the ship. Not until the 28th of May, did they get a useful message. A missionary had the on the 21st of  January 1929 seen a very large ship, which corresponded to København at Tristan de Cunha (located in the South Atlantic Ocean between South America and Africa's southern tip).

 


Mast and sail in water (unknown vessel)

Skibet havde tilsyneladende været i havsnød. Disse informationer gjorde at man intensiverede eftersøgningen, men da en finsk reder kunne meddele ØK at deres 4-mastede bark Ponapee havde passeret Tristan de Cunha netop den 21. januar, brast håbet.

Det siges, at H.N. Andersen græd da han fik meldingen om at det var Ponapee som var set ved Tristan de Cunha. Dagen efter blev eftersøgningen indstillet og der blev aldrig fundet spor efter København. 60 besætningsmedlemmer gik ned med skibet.

The ship had apparently been in distress. This information made it possible to intensify the search, but when a Finnish owner could announce that their 4-masted bark Ponapee had passed by Tristan de Cunha just on 21st of January, hope burst.

It is said that H.N. Andersen wept when he received the announcement that it was Ponapee which had been seen at Tristan de Cunha. The next day the search was cancelled, and no traces were found of København. 60 crew members went down with the ship.

 

 

Indskudt mail modtaget 10. oktober 2014.

Hej.

Måske du synes denne historie skal med i “snesejler”

Den er læst i Ærø Venstreblad fra 3. januar 1930.

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To unge danske sømænd blev en aften i Buenos Aires i 1928 påkørt af en rangermaskine. Den ene døde øjeblikkeligt hvorimod den anden fik benet kørt af og kom på hospitalet, hvor koldbrand senere tog livet af ham.

Den danske sømandspræst, Svend Nielsen på stedet forrettede begravelsen. I havnen lå S/S København og besætning og kadetter fulgte skibsdrengen til graven i den fremmede jord.

Præsten byggede sin begravelsestale over ordene: “Der er kun et skridt mellem mig og døden” og med den tale henvendte han også til de mange unge danskere der var til stede.

Dagen efter – 14. december 1928 – forlod “København” Buenos Aires og forsvandt.

Med venlig hilsen

Gunner Egholm Rasmussen

Fhv. maskinchef i Ø.K.

Inserted Mail received 10. October 2014.

Hi.

Maybe you think this story should be in the "Snow sailor"

It is from the Ærø newspaper from 3rd of January 1930.

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Two young Danish sailors were hit by a shunting engine (locomotive) an evening in Buenos Aires in 1928. One died immediately whereas the other had the leg ripped off and came to the hospital, where gangrene later took his life.

The Danish seamen's priest, Svend Nielsen, on the spot, executed the funeral. In the port, S/S København’s crew and cadets followed the ship boy to the grave in the foreign soil.

The priest built his funeral speech over the words: "There is only one step between me and death" and with that speech he also addressed  the many young Danes who were present.

The day after – 14. December 1928 – the København left Buenos Aires and later disappeared.”

Sincerely,

Gunner Egholm Rasmussen – former Chief Engineer in EAC.

 

Der har siden været en del diskussion omkring grunden til Københavns forlis. Forskning har vist at byg giver problemer, såfremt fugtigheden øges. Engelsk lov forbød skibe at tage byg som bulk-last. Normalt var det en tommelfinger regel, at man kunne laste 10-14% af byglasten som bulk. Andre formodninger er, at København kunne have ramt et isbjerg.

There has since been a lot of discussion about the reason for the København shipwreck. Research has shown that barley creates problems if moisture is increased. English law banned ships from taking barley as bulk cargo. Usually, it was a thumb rule that one could load 10-14% of the barley load as bulk. Other presumptions are that the København could have hit an iceberg.


København ved kaj.
København at berth.

Mail fra Mogens Ottesen.

Hej Willy.

Jeg har nyligen sendt en mail til James Glass på Tristan da Cunha, da han og en kollega, muligvis har fundet vragresterne fra skoleskibet ”København”, og vil fortsætte dykningerne ved Cave Point når det igen bliver sommer på øen til okt – nov.

 

Af de forskellige fotos af nagler og et stokanker – kan det tyde på et nittet jernskib med stokankre, og dem var der ikke så mange af før 2. verdenskrig.

 

Dimensionerne kan også meget vel passe – du kan jo prøve at studere billederne som jeg har vedhæftet som en fil.

 

Fik mail fra Norman Glass på Tristan da Cunha her til aften - det var ham som fandt vraget.

Mail from Mogen Ottesen

Hey Willy.

I have recently sent an email to James Glass at Tristan da Cunha, as he and a colleague, possibly may have found the wreckage from the training ship " København ", and will continue diving at Cave Point when it again becomes summer on the island in Oct – Nov.

From the different photos of the nails and a stick anchor – it could indicate a riveted iron ship with stock-anchors, of which there were not that many before World War II.

The dimensions may fit well – you can try to study the images that I have attached as a file.

Got an email from Norman Glass at Tristan da Cunha this evening - it was he who found the wreckage.

 

Motiv af stigelignende genstand.
Ladder-like subject.

Kan tænkes, at det er en af de jernlejdere, som gik fra lugekarmen og ned i lastrummene evt. via mellemdækket - de havde oftest disse korte mellemrum mellem trinene husker jeg fra min Ø.K. tid.

Jeg har drønet op og ned af disse mange gange, da jeg var i god træning fra entringerne om bord i skoleskibet "Danmark", hvor førstestyrmand Otto Bentsen kom med opildnende tilråb, hvis det gik for langsomt.

Is it possible that it could be one of the iron ladders which went from the hatch sill and down into the holds between decks – they often had these short gaps between the steps I remember from my EAC time.

I have been rushing up and down these many times as I was in good training from the climbing the shrouds on board the training ship "Danmark", where first mate Otto Bentsen came up with inflammatory language if we were  too slowly.

.

Her ses det elektriske lossepil til forlugen på Brodækket.

the electrical winch for the front hold at the bridge deck.

.

Vinduesramme på bestikhuset ved siden af Jakobs lejderen på agterparten af bestikhuset lige foran agter lugen.

window frame at the navigation house next to Jacob's ladder at the aft end of the navigation house right in front of the aft most hatch.

.Del af belægningen rundt kortbordet i bestikken ???

Part of the coating around the map table???

En udtaget nagle, som skal undersøges nærmere.

A removed nail which must be examined further.

Et af de 2 fundne stokankre.

One of the 2 found stock-anchors.

.


Three pictures of the bow – The figurehead is Bishop Absalon, founder of Copenhagen in 1167

 

De gode øboere agter at fortsætte dykningen efter "København" når vinterstormene har lagt sig.

Så vil de opmåle vraget mere nøjagtigt, og tage nogle flere fotos - det bliver ganske spændende at følge.

The good islanders intend to continue the diving after "København" when the winter storms have settled. They will measure the wreckage more accurately and take some more photos – it will be quite exciting to follow.

 

Her er et udklip af dykkernes tekst:

Here's a clip of the divers ' text:

På vores andet dyk, undersøgte vi et større område omkring vraget, hvor vi fandt 2 store ankre 03:57 meter (10 til 13 fod) på tværs på havbunden. kan disse ankre tilhøre vraget? Eller har vi fundet beviser for et andet fartøj, der har mødt sin skæbne mod klipperne i en af ​​de barske storme, der ofte rammer klippeøerne Tristan?

Vi er ved at løbe tør for luft, men vi gør en kort pause til at fotografere de store ankre før vi må tilbage til overfladen og hjem igen.

Da vi sprang over bølgerne i vores båd, kunne jeg ikke lade være med at spekulerer på, hvad var historien om dette skib, og hvordan kom hun til at møde sin tragiske afslutning, strandet mod klipperne i Tristan?

“On our second dive, we examined a larger area around the wreck, where we found 2 large anchors 03:57 meters (10 to 13 feet) at the seabed. Can these anchors belong to the wreck? Or have we found evidence of another vessel that has met its fate against the rocks in one of the harsh storms that often hits the rocky islands of Tristan?

We are running out of air, but we are making a short break to photograph the large anchors before we have to get back to the surface and home again.

When we jumped the waves in our boat, I couldn't help but wonder what the story of this ship was, and how did she come to meet her tragic ending, stranded against the rocks of Tristan?”

 


The divers in their boat.

 

Jeg har sendt dem nogle informationer om skoleskibet, samt avisudklip, kopier m.v.

Jeg har en teori om, at der er opstået brand i maskinrummet ved juletid i 1928, og på det tidspunkt havde man jo kun spulevand at slukke med, derfor lå agterskibet tungt i søen, da det strandede på Tristan, hvilket jeg har skrevet til Norman Glass.

Mindst en af bådene ser ud til at være kommet i vandet under branden om bord, idet en ekspedition i september 1935 på en øde strand omkring 400 miles nord for Swakopmund Sydafrika, fandt en smadret redningsbåd med syv blege skeletter.

 

Det er ikke endeligt bevist, at de overlevende var fra "København", men kranierne var "nordiske" og uniformer og bådvragdele blev beskrevet som værende af skandinavisk oprindelse.

De strandede søfolk , der nåede kysten - landede i et område uden kilder til rent vand, og det formodes at de er døde af dehydrering, da to lig fandtes flere kilometer inde i ørkenen.

Jeg talte i 60'erne med en bådsmand, som fra en Ø.K.-bekendt, havde erfaret, at der stod KØBENHAVN i nogle af huebåndene, som man fandt i båden i det nuværende Namibia.

Dette måtte dog ikke komme frem i pressen, for ikke igen at rippe op i katastrofen, som havde taget meget hårdt på H.N. Andersen, og han havde stor magt over pressen i 30'erne.

Der er dem som mener, at han aldrig genvandt sin velkendte lederstil igen efter "København"s forlis.

Kan du evt. bruge noget af disse udsagn til "Snesejleren" - er du velkommen, og jeg bidrager gerne med yderligere oplysninger m.v.

Du har jo oplagt en masse flotte billeder af "København" på "Snesejler"-sitet, som jeg jævnligt besøger af nostalgiske årsager, da sitet er "second to none", som gamle Churchill sagde i sin tid.

Det ser ikke ud til, at mange i den danske søfartspresse har vist interesse for fundet ved Tristan, men det skal nok komme, hvis det viser sig at vraget er fra "København."

 

Mogens Ottesen.

 

I have sent them some information about the training ship, as well as newspaper clippings, copies etc.

I have a theory that there has been a fire in the engine room at Christmas in 1928, and in those days you had only a spray of water to extinguish, therefore the stern was heavy in the sea when it stranded on Tristan, which I have written to Norman Glass.

At least one of the boats seems to have come in the water during the fire on board, as an expedition in September 1935 on a deserted beach around 400 miles north of Swakopmund South Africa, found a smashed lifeboat with seven pale skeletons.

It has not been conclusively proven that the survivors were from " København ", but the skulls were "Nordic" and uniforms and boat parts were described as being of Scandinavian origin.

The stranded sailors who reached the coast – landed in an area without sources of clean water, and it is presumed that they have died of dehydration, as two bodies were found several kilometers inside the wilderness.

I spoke in the 60s with a boatman who, from an island friend, had learned that København was written in some of the hat name-bands which were found in the boat in the present Namibia.

This did not, however, appear in the press, not to rip up in the disaster, which had been taken very hard by H.N. Andersen, and he had (after all) great power over the news in the 30ties.

There are those who believe that he never reconquered his well-known leader style after the " København " shipwreck.

You may be able to use some of these statements for the "Snow Sailor" – and you are welcome to do so, and I am happy to contribute with additional information etc.

You have shared a lot of great pictures of " København " on the "Snow Sailor" site, which I regularly visit for nostalgic reasons, since the site is "second to none", as Old Churchill said in his time.

It does not seem that many in the Danish maritime press have shown any interest in the findings of Tristan, but it will come if it turns out that the wreck is the "København".

Mogen Ottesen.

 


København at berth.

Udklip af en mail.

Jeg skriver til dig på baggrund af genudsendelsen af DR2's dokumentar Forliset om Skoleskibet København for nogle uger siden. Du har jo en side om skibet på snesejler.dk som jeg fandt frem til i min søgning efter oplysninger om København.

Jeg undres lidt over at det skulle kunne lade sig gøre for et så stort skib i nyere tid, at forlise uden et eneste spor, som det jo fremgår skulle være tilfældet i diverse kilder og hjemmesider.

På den baggrund er det interessant at læse indlægget fra M. Ottesen som snesejler.dk har postet på siden, og jeg har søgt lidt på informationerne.

Ganske rigtigt kan man i 2 artikler i Sydney Morning Herald og The Advocate fra 24. september 1935 læse, at man havde fundet en redningsbåd og 6 skeletter formodentlig tilhørende skoleskibet København på en kyst i Namibia.

Den oplysning fremgår ikke nogen andre steder i senere beskrivelser af forliset, og så vidt jeg husker ej heller i dokumentaren på DR2.

Det synes jeg er en besynderlig omgang med virkeligheden.

Det er ligeledes interessant at læse på hjemmesiden for øen Tristan da Cunha om fundet af et stort skibsvrag der ikke er identificeret i 2011, og med beskrivelser/billeder af detaljer som meget vel kunne stamme fra et skib af Københavns størrelse.

Især også når man husker på, at en præst på øen insisterede på, at det var en 5 master han så i havsnød d. 21. januar 1929.

Nu tænker jeg så på om du skulle have nyere informationer i sagen da jeg oprigtig mener at man på baggrund af fremkomne oplysninger (som ØK måske ikke har været interesseret i at kom frem i tidligere tider) bør undersøge nærmere.

Med venlig hilsen

Nino Chieu.

Part of the text from an email.

I am writing to you on the basis of the re-broadcast of the DR2's (Danish TV 2) documentary on the training ship København a few weeks ago. You have a page about the ship on “snesejler.dk”  which I found in my search for information about København.

I am somewhat surprised that it would be possible for such a large ship to founder in recent times without a single track, as is evident in various sources and websites.

On that basis, it is interesting to read the post from M. Ottesen which “snesejler.dk” has posted on the page and I have researched a little on the information.

Quite rightly, in two articles in the Sydney Morning Herald and The Advocate from 24th of May. September 1935 you can read that a lifeboat had been found, together with six skeletons, on a coast in Namibia and presumably associated with the training ship København.

That information does not appear anywhere else in later descriptions of the shipwreck, and as far as I remember neither in the documentary at DR2.

I think this is a peculiar way of treating reality.

It is also interesting to read on the website of the island of Tristan da Cunha, about the finding of a large shipwreck, not yet identified in 2011, and with descriptions/pictures of details which could well originate from a ship of København’s size.

Especially when you remember that a priest on the island insisted that it was a 5-master he saw in sea time on 21. January 1929.

Now I am thinking about whether you should have more recent information on the matter as I sincerely believe that on the basis of the information obtained (which EAC may not have been of interested in having published in the past), should be investigated.

Sincerely,

Nino Chieu.

 

Et nyt dyk blev udført den 19. december 2013, og det er med omkring 82% sandsynlighed, vraget af skoleskibet "København".

Vi vil forhåbentligt få mere at vide om efterforskningen i 2014.

Tristanboerne samarbejder med Udenrigsministeriet, M/S museet i Helsingør og Ø.K.

De leder bl. a. efter spor af den særprægede hjælpemotor, som kun fandtes om bord i "København".

82% er et meget højt tal, og man må håbe at det bliver uddybet og offentligtgjort i forbindelse med den fortsatte efterforskning.

A new dive was carried out on 19th of December 2013, and state with about 82% probability, that the wreck of the training ship " København ". Maybe we will learn more about the investigation in 2014.

The islanders on Tristan cooperates with the Danish Foreign Ministry, the M/S Museum in Helsingør and the EAC. They are e.g. looking for traces of the distinctive auxiliary engine which existed only onboard  the København. 82% is a very high figure and one can hope that it will be explored and published in the context of the continuing investigation.

12. september 2014.

Hej Willy !

Jeg sendte nogle informationer til Dawn Repetto, og spurgte til om, hvorledes det gik med efterforskningen af det store vrag ved Cave Point.

Dette venlige menneske kunne oplyse følgende:

12th of September 2014.

Hey Willy!

I sent some information to Dawn Repetto and asked about how it was going concerning the investigation of the big wreck at Cave Point. This friendly man could inform the following:

"We are still unsure, if the shipwreck found at the Caves - is actually the Koebenhaven. 

We will not be able to confirm this until we actually find something on the wreck, which links it to the Kobenhaven.

We are hoping to do further dives in the summer months."

Hope this info is helpful.
Best wishes
Dawn.

Det lyder godt, at der fortsat arbejdes på opklaringen af dette mysterium, som uden tvivl vil sætte Tristan da Cunha på Verdenskortet, når det bekræftes, at det er "København", hvilket jeg skrev til Dawn Repetto.

Jeg har sammenholdt de tilsendte vragbilleder med billeder fra skoleskibet, og kan placere mange af vragdelene om bord i "København".

Det ser ud til, at alt træværket er forsvundet gennem tiden, som med "Titanic".

Ligeledes ser det ud til, det primært er det agterste af skibet man har fundet - heller ikke rigningen har man hørt noget til, men måske er skoleskibet knækket i flere dele, da det strandede på klipperne.

Jeg påregner besøg af en DR journalist om ikke så længe, da han har planer om, at lave en radiodokumentar om "København"s forlis.

Så ville det være fornemt, om der evt. var nye bidrag til den mangeårige debat om Ø.K's stolthed.

It sounds great that they still work on the clarification of this mystery, which undoubtedly will put Tristan da Cunha on the world map when it is confirmed that it is " København ", which I wrote to Dawn Repetto.

I have compared the sent wreckage pictures with pictures from the training ship and can place many of the wreckage pieces on the " København ".

It seems that all the woodwork has disappeared over time, as with the "Titanic".

Likewise, it seems that it is primarily the stern of the ship which has been found, the rig not been found, but perhaps the training ship was broken into several parts when it stranded on the rocks.

I expect visit from a DR journalist shortly, as he has plans to make a radio documentary about the " København" shipwreck.

It would then be great if there were more information to the long-standing debate on EAC’s pride.

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Mail sendt til professionel vragdykker i Korsør.

Hej Michael !

Jeg kan notere, at der fortsat er interesse for skoleskibet "København", da flere har reageret på mit indlæg på hjemmesiden "Snesejler".

Jeg forstår din professionelle interesse i billederne fra vraget af "København" på Tristan da Cunha, men jeg har ikke yderligere billeder end dem, som er lagt op på "Snesejler" siden.

Jeg har prøvet at sammenligne vragbillederne med fotografier fra skoleskibet, og lagt dem ved siden af vragfotoet, og fundet ud af en del af vragdelene.

Jeg ved ikke om du har dykket på ældre fartøjer fra før 2 VK, men det kunne være interessant at høre din mening - om mine bud på, hvor vragdelen befandt sig om bord i "København", så jeg sender dig denne som en vedhæftet fil, og hører gerne nærmere fra dig - måske kan du komme med et bud på billeder, som jeg ikke lige kan pejle mig ind på - eller har du et professionelt bud på, hvad vragdelen er.

Det ser ud til, at alt træet er forsvundet, hvilket det jo også var på "Titanic".

Angående strandingen af en større livbåd i nærheden af Möwe Bugten i Namibia - har jeg som dig primært min viden fra bøger og pressen i 1929.

Jeg er overbevist om, at det med stor sandsynlighed var en af livbådene fra "København", da den netop IKKE var klinkbygget, hvilket størstedelen af redningsbådene var før 2. VK.

Jeg kan vanskeligt forestille mig, at nogle af disse effekter er bevaret for eftertiden, da det jo er over 80 år siden, at man fandt livbåden og skeletterne - i dag kunne man jo have taget DNA i brug til at bestemme personernes identitet.

Jeg har lige medvirket i en DR Dokumentaroptagelse - om skoleskibet "København"s havari og senere forlis på Tristan den 10. februar 1929.

Det er planen at DR vil være tilstede på Tristan, når der igen foregår nye dykninger her i sommer på den Sydlige halvkugle.

DR påtænker at sende udsendelsen engang i det nye år, og det bliver spændende at følge, da jeg er ret overbevist om, at det er "København"s vrag, som Norman Glass m. fl.  ved en tilfældighed har fundet ved øen, men nu må vi se, hvad de maritime eksperter finder ud af.

Med højagtelse.

Mogens Pilemand Ottesen.

"snesejler emeritus"

Mail sent to professional wreck diver in Korsør from Mogens Ottesen

Hello Michael!

I have noted that there is still an interest in the training ship " København ", as several have responded to my post on the website "Snow Sailor".

I understand your professional interest in the pictures from the wreck of " København " on Tristan da Cunha, but I do not have any more pictures than those already posted on the "Snow Sailor" page.

I have tried to compare the wreckage with photographs from the training ship, and put them beside the wreck photo, and found out part of the wreckage pieces.

I do not know if you have dived on older vessels from before WWII, but it might be interesting to hear your opinion – about my bids on where the wreckage part was placed on " København", so I send you this as an attachment, and would like to hear more from you – maybe you could give a professional bid on what the wreckage part is.

It seems that all the wood has disappeared, which it also was on the "Titanic".

Regarding the beaching of a larger lifeboat near the Möwe Bay in Namibia – I as you, primarily have my knowledge from books and the press from 1929.

I am convinced that it was very likely that it was one of the lifeboats of "København", as it was NOT clinker-built, as the majority of the lifeboats were before WWII.

I can hardly imagine that some of these effects have been preserved for posterity, since it is over 80 years since the lifeboat and the skeletons were found – today we could have used DNA to determine the identity of the persons.

I have just appeared in a DR documentary recording-about the training ship " København’s" foundering and later shipwreck on Tristan on 10th of February 1929.

It is planned that DR will be present at Tristan when new dives are again going on this summer in the southern hemisphere.

DR plans to send the broadcast sometime in the new year and it will be exciting to follow as I am quite convinced that it is " København’s" s wreck, like Norman Glass and others by chance have found near the island, but now we have to see what the maritime experts find out.

With high esteem.

Mogens Ottesen.

"Snow Sailor Emeritus"

 


For anker på floden i Bangkok.

København at anchor at the river in Bangkok.

Brev fra Mogens 29. september 2014.

Jeg vil løbende holde dig orienteret, når der dukker nyt op om, "København" samt radioudsendelsen først i det nye år.

Her medvirker også folk fra ØK og MS museet i Helsingør, og vist også en maskinkyndig fra B&W, da jeg ikke i detaljer kunne forklare journalisten om brændstof tilførslen til maskinen om bord m.v.

DR har fået god kontakt til Glass familien på Tristan, som er stærkt involveret i vragdykningerne, og det optager tilsyneladende alle vulkanøens indbyggere.

Lad os håbe på, at de gode Tristanfolk - efter 80 år får oprejsning og en stor tak, for deres observationer i februar 1929, idet øboerne dengang blev latterliggjort af den danske presse, og Ø.K. i særdeleshed.

Dette var og er ganske uberettiget, da de er særdeles gode søfolk, og kendte øen, som deres egen bukselomme, da de drev fiskeri af bl. a. hummer i de lokale farvande, når det barske vejrlig tillod dette.

Øboerne havde i mange år talt om, at "København" måtte været strandet i dette område, men man har ikke haft de nødvendige ressourcer til en sådan dykning.

Min hypotese er fortsat, at der er opstået en voldsom brand i maskinen, og man ikke har kunnet nedkæmpe denne, da man kun havde vand at gøre godt med, og det er ikke specielt velegnet til masskinrumbrande.

Besætningen er som følge af branden, gået i livbådene ved juletid i 1928, og den ene er strandet ved Möwe Bugten i Namibia engang i april 1929, hvor en illegal ekspedition 1933 fandt livbåden og 5 skeletter.

Dette kom først officielt frem i september 1935, og blev pure afvist af den radikale udenrigsminister Peter Munk, samt af Kompagniet - selv om der var stærke indicer på, at båden netop stammede fra "København" bl. a. strømmens sætning i Sydatlanten, fund af beklædning, bådens udformning, m.m.

Med snesejler hilsen.

Mogens.

Letter from Mogens 29. September 2014.

I will keep you informed when news and the radio broadcast about " København " emerge in the new year.

Here, people from the EAC and the MS Museum in Helsingør are involved, and I believe also an engine expert from B & W, as I could not, in details, explain the journalist about the fuel supply to the engine on board etc.

DR has had good contact with the Glass family on Tristan, whom are heavily involved in the wreckage, and apparently it occupies all of the volcano island’s inhabitants.

Let us hope that, after 80 years, the good Tristan people will receive redress and a big thank you for their observations in February 1929, with the islanders being ridiculed by the Danish press, and EAC in particular.

This was and is quite unjustified, as they are very good sailors, and know the island as their own back pockets, as they among others did lobster fishing in the local waters, when the harsh weather allowed this.

For many years the islanders had talked about the fact that " the fishing of " had stranded in this area, but the resources needed for diving have not been available.

My hypothesis remains that there was a violent fire in the engine room, and it was not possible to defeat it, since they only had water to use, and it is not particularly suitable for engine room fires.

The crew, as a result of the fire, had to enter into the lifeboats at Christmas in 1928, and one of these stranded at the Möwe Bay in Namibia sometime in April 1929, where an illegal expedition in 1933 found the lifeboat and 5 skeletons.

This first became official in September 1935, and was purely rejected by the Foreign Minister Peter Munk, as well as by the company – although there were strong indications that the boat had originated from "København", due to, among other things, the currents in the South Atlantic, the discovery of clothing , the design of the boat, etc.

With Snow Sailor greetings.

Mogens.

 

København ved kaj.
København at berth.

29. januar 2015.

Fra Mogens Ottesen som er primus motor i sagen, har jeg modtaget følgende tekst og billeder af effekter, som dykkerne på Tristan da Chuna har fundet i havet ved Cave Point.

" Så er der ultimo januar 2015 tikket nyheder ind fra Tristan ang. skoleskibet "København", og det er jo fortsat spændende, hvad der dukker op ved Cave Point.

Jeg har nyligen modtaget en del mails og billeder fra Tristan, hvor der har været et par dykninger her i januar, og der påtænkes lignende i februar, når svømmedykkerne igen får tid, da de p.t. er på Gough Island, for at foretage inspektioner til forskellige data om dyrelivet m.v. på disse fjerne øer.

Vejret har også været ugunstigt for dykninger i en periode p.g.a. af kraftige dønninger fra SV.

Hvis læserne måtte have nogle bud på, hvad billederne kan tænkes at forestille -  hører jeg gerne nærmere herom inden jeg igen kontakter de brave tristanboere, som jeg gennem årene har hjulpet med nogle informationer m.v. "Down Under"

I spænding ventende "snesejler"

Mogens Pilemand Ottesen,

29th of January 2015.

From Mogens Ottesen, the “prime mover” in the case, I have received the following text and pictures of the effects that the divers at Tristan da Chuna have found in the sea at Cave Point.

"At the end of January 2015, news from Tristan regarding the training ship " København " has ticked-in, and it is still exciting what emerges at Cave Point.

I have recently received a number of emails and pictures from Tristan, where there have been a few dives in January, and it is planned to do similar dives in February, when the scuba divers again get time; they are currently on Gough Island to conduct inspections of various data on Wildlife, etc. on these distant islands.

The weather has also been unfavorable to divers for a period of time due to strong dwells from SW.

If any readers have some suggestions as to what the images show, I would like to hear from you, before I again contact the brave Tristan people who, over the years, have helped with some information, etc. from "Down Under"

In tension waiting "Snow Sailor"

Mogens Ottesen.

Til venstre, ligner spanter ........ til højre stort anker.
left, looks like hull ribs ................. right, a big anchor.

Ligner store bogstaver: O og D.
looks like the letters: O and D.

Lille anker, (måske relevant)
Small anchor (maybe relevant)

Om effekterne stammer fra S/S København er endnu uvist, men måske vil der snart dukke flere oplysninger op, idet dykkerne planlægger nye dykker-ture i februar 2015.

Whether the effects originate from S/S København is still to be determined, but perhaps more information will soon emerge, as the divers are planning new dives in February 2015.


Sejlene rebes.
The sails are hauled.

 

Sidste nyt om vraget ved Cave Point.

Last news about the wreck at Cave Point.

 

13. Maj 2015.

Angående et skibsvrag som er fundet i Det Indiske Ocean.

Umiddelbart kan jeg ikke genkende noget, som indikerer at det skulle have relation til "S/S København".

Ankeret synes at tilhøre et mindre og ældre fartøj, og der var ingen kul om bord i skoleskibet "S/S København", da Bolinder hjælpemotorerne klarede strømforsyning og opvarmningen incl. kabyssen, så på sin vis var det et moderne skib.

Ellers intet nyt fra Tristan, og nu er efterårsstormene sat ind, så der sker næppe meget de næste måneder.

Hvor ville det være godt, om man kunne anvende en sådan undersøisk søge drone ved Cave Point, hvilket jeg foreslog Danmarks Radio, men det ser ud til, at DR helt er bakket ud af projektet.

Jeg og en fotograf samt en journalist var indstillet på at skulle besøge øen, og Norman, så det blev naturligvis en stor skuffelse, da DR bakkede ud af opgaven.

Sidst jeg hørte fra Normann, kunne han oplyse at den del af vraget, som er fotograferet ligger på blot 10 til 20 meter vand, så opgaven skulle være overkommelig for en søgerobot, som heller ikke er så afhængig af vind og ikke mindst strøm, som er farlig og lumsk for selv lokalkendte dykkere.

Muligvis er skibets bovspryd lokaliseret, men det er endnu ikke fotograferet. Jeg har sendt forskellige dessiner om maskinerne og bovsprydet m.v. - og Normann er ligeledes overbevist om, at det er skoleskibet "København", som er strandet ved Cave Point, og knækket i mindst to dele omkring spant 60 - 62.

Hvorfor Ø.K. ikke i juni 1929 gav sig bedre tid til at undersøge øens SV-kyst - er for mig en gåde, når omkring 100 øboere på tæt hold så et kæmpe barkskib drifte sydøstover i en afstand af blot 400 meter fra klippekysten, hvilket Ø.K. var vidende om på det tidspunkt.

De gode tristanboere fandt rent faktisk også noget vraggods i dagene efter strandingen, hvilket åbenbart også skulle hemmeligholdes.

Der blev bjerget nogle rugbrøds kasser i træ, som bageren havde stående ovenpå kabystaget. Kabyssen lå i styrbords side udfor 3 lugen.

Endvidere noget træværk i den Ø.K.-gule farve, som flød ved Cave Point eller var drevet i land.

Dette træværk kan stamme fra den afskærmning, som var monteret omkring brødkasserne, men jeg er ikke helt sikker.

Antagelig er meget vraggods sikkert drevet til havs, da der gik nogle dage, inden øboerne fik kæmpet sig frem til Cave Point.

Senere fandt  Tristanboerne også en strandet Engelhardt-båd, som man forsøgte at slæbe tilbage til bygden med nogle af de gamle robåde.

Det kulede op fra SV, og søen rejste sig, så man måtte opgive, selv om det ville have været en fin reservebåd at have på Tristan da Cunha.

Den værste skrøne- er den om "Ponape"s passage af Stony Hill Point den 21. januar 1929 i en afstand af 5 - 6 sømil.

Oplysningerne er korrekte ifølge skibsdagbogen, men tillæg dertil afstanden fra bygden på ca 12 km - 14 km.

Ingen person vil på en afstand af 20 - 25 km- med nok så god en kikkert ( hvilket man iøvrigt ikke havde på Øen) - vil kunne udtale sig om sejlføring - antallet af ombordværende både - personer om bord eller det hvide bælte på skibsskroget, som Tristanboerne i enighed gjorde rede for overfor Kaptajn H.K. Kristensen fra Ø.K.

Han fremviste også et fotografi af "København", og der var stor enighed om, at netop var dette skib, som man havde observeret nogle måneder tidligere.

Øboerne blev naturligvis skuffet over resultatet af Ø.K.s undersøgelse, hvor man ikke troede på, hvad øboerne havde observeret hin februardag i 1929, selv om de var habile fiskere og søfolk, og kendte besejlings forholdene omkring Tristan da Cunha.

Derfor er jeg fortsat overbevist om, at strandingen skete omkring den 10. februar 1929, hvor skoleskibet er kommet til øen som vinddriver, og strandet ved Cave Point, hvor det blev slået til vrag.

Håber på en endelig og snarlig afklaring af skoleskibet "København"s skæbne.

Med maritim hilsen.

Mogens Pilemand Ottesen 

Navigatør Emeritus.

13th of May 2015.

More from Mogens Ottesen

About a shipwreck found in the Indian Ocean.

I do not for sure recognize anything that indicates it should be related to the København.

The anchor seems to belong to a smaller and older vessel, and no coal was used onboard the training ship København, as the Bolinder auxiliary engines took care of the power supply and heating incl. the galley, in fact it was a “modern” ship.

Otherwise nothing new from Tristan, and the autumn storms have now stated, so hardly much happens in the next few months.

How great it would be if one could use such an underwater search drone at Cave Point, which I suggested Danmarks Radio, but it seems that DR has completely backed out of the project.

A photographer and I, as well as a journalist, were prepared to visit the island and Norman, so it was of course a big disappointment when DR backed down from the task.

The last time I heard from Norman he told that the part of the wreck which is photographed is found in just 10-20 meters of water debt, so the task should be affordable for a search robot, which is also not so dependent on wind and not least the current, which is dangerous and treacherous even for local divers.

Possibly the ship's bow is localized, but it has not yet been photographed. I have sent various designs on the engines and the bowsprit, etc. – and Norman is also convinced that it is the training ship " insidiously ", which is stranded at Cave Point, and broken in at least two parts around ribs 60-62.

Why the EAC in June 1929 didn’t took more time to examine the island's SW coast – is a mystery to me when about 100 islanders from a close distance of just 400 meters from the Cliff coast saw a giant bark ship drift SE. a fact the EAC was knew about at the time.

In fact, the good Tristan residents also found some wreckage in the days after at the beach, which apparently had to be kept a secret.

Some rye bread boxes in wood were salvaged, which the baker had standing on top of the galley roof. The galley was on the starboard side of the 3rd hatch.

Furthermore, some woodwork in the EAC-yellow color was seen floating at Cave Point or even came ashore.

This woodwork could stem from the shielding that was mounted around the breadboxes, but I'm not quite sure.

Presumably, a lot of wreckage was drifting back to sea, as it took a few days before the islanders got up to Cave Point.

Later, Tristan Islanders found a stranded Engelhardt boat, which they tried to tow back to the village with some of the old rowing boats.

Wind blew up from SW, and the sea level rose, so you had to abandon it, even though it would have been a nice spare boat to have on Tristan da Cunha.

The worst hoax-is the about "Ponape" 's passage of Stony Hill Point on 21st of January 1929 at a distance of 5-6 nautical miles. The information is correct according to the logbook, but you have to add the distance from the settlement of approximately 12 km-14 km.

However, no person will, at a distance of 20-25 km – even with very good binoculars (which, incidentally, they did not have on the island) – be able to comment on the sails, the number of persons on board or the white belt on the hull, which the Tristan Islanders in unity told to Captain H.K. Kristensen from EAC.

He even presented a photograph of the København, and there was a strong consensus that this was exactly the ship that had been observed a few months earlier.

The islanders were, of course, disappointed by the outcome of the EAC investigation, which did not believe in what the Islanders had observed in 1929, although they were capable fishermen and sailors, and knew the navigation conditions around Tristan da Cunha.

Therefore, I remain convinced that the beaching did happen around the 10th of February 1929, when the training ship came drifting to the island and stranded at Cave Point, where it was beaten to a wreck.

I hope for a final and speedy clarification of the destiny training ship København.

With maritime greeting.

Mogens Ottesen

Navigator Emeritus.


København ved kaj.
The training ship København at berth.

NYHED - August - 2017.

NEWS – August – 2017.

By Bent Mikkelsen – Danish Maritime’s magazine from August 2017

Has the training ship København been found?

The mystery surrounding the shipwreck of the East Asiatic Company's training ship København has perhaps come a step closer to a solution. Now, 88 years after the training ship disappeared with the loss of the entire crew, it may have been localized at the bottom of the sea in the southern part of the Indian Ocean. This has been done in connection with the extensive search of the Malaysian aircraft MH 370, which may have been flying in a route south from Malaysia instead of north to China.


Måske vraget af skoleskibet KØBENHAVN på bunden af det sydlige Indiske Ocean.
Perhaps the wreck of the training ship København at the bottom of the southern Indian Ocean.

The very intensive search for the wreckage or parts (especially flight recorders) from Malaysia Airlines MH 370, which disappeared in March 2014 on a flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing in China with 239 persons on board, has uncovered a wreck on the seabed of the Southern part of the Indian Ocean. Initially, something man-made and of metal, has been located on the seabed at 3,700 meters below the water surface. The length and the profile could, to a great extent, resemble the wreckage of an aircraft where the wings were knocked off.


However, it turned out to be a shipwreck. It was concluded after an autonomous underwater vehicle was sent down together with a camera from the Norwegian offshore ship Havila Harmony. The pictures and surveys also showed a far slim sailing ship, which clearly stands with several masts and its yardarms intact. A name was not immediately seen at the pictures that have been published by the Australian transport Safety Bureau. The length of the hull and the width – it is a relatively slim hull – indicates that it could be the København.

No specific location of the find has been published, but the search has for a long time taken place in an area in the southern part of the ocean based on calculations of when MH 370 would run out of fuel and therefore would plunge into the sea. This theory was given new nutrition in 2015 when a wreck part was found from a plane that washed ashore on the island of Reunion, which lies to the east of Madagascar. The wreck part was later identified as part of an  Airbus aircraft of the same type as MH 370.

There is currently no information on whether the wreck will be examined further, as the search continues to apply to the missing aircraft and its black boxes in order for them to shed a closer light on the disappearance of the aircraft. There have been many theories as to why the plane changed the course 180 degrees and flew south instead of the planned route north from Malaysia.

The training ship.

The training ship København disappeared during a voyage from Buenos Aires in Argentina to Adelaide in Australia in ballast, which is to say they had sand in the cargo holds. It happened in the days after 14th of December 1928, when the ship sailed from the Argentine port with a course towards Australia taking her south of Africa and through the roaring 40’ties (it was, however, during the summer months in the southern hemisphere). The voyage was intended to take two months, but when the ship did not arrive at the end of February 1929, it was searched for and there was concern among the relatives in Denmark. The training ship disappeared with a crew of 59 people, of which 45 were cadets in training to become seafarers in the EAC fleet of cargo ships. The very last contact with the København was on the 22nd of December 1928, when the training ship was in telegraphic contact with the Norwegian steamer William Blumer at position 33° 44S – 34° 23V – roughly halfway between South America and the southern tip of Africa’s Cape the Good Hope. The training ship København announced everything well on board and continued the voyage towards Australia to load grain.

When the ship had still not reached Adelaide at the beginning of March 1929, a search was initiated in the way that telegrams were sent to ports and agents in the southern hemisphere in order to obtain any kind of information. At home in Denmark, the East Asiatic Company, which had yet its founder N. H. Andersen heading the company, assured all the relatives that there was no immediate reason to be worried. It was explained that the training ship could be delayed by calm winds, just as it could be the opposite where the ship had been in a hove-to situation due to storms, fog banks and/or navigation between icebergs.

The search.

Things did not develop positively for the EAC or the relatives. No information was provided on the ship and no position reports on entry into Adelaide at all. In early April 1929, the East Asiatic Company decided to equip a search for the training ship, which was a company pride at the same level as Selandia, the world's first seagoing diesel engine ship.

The expedition, led by a Captain H. K. Christensen, who had previously served onboard the  København, was given access to the shipping company's motor tanker Mexico. The tanker was in 1920 the very first new building from Nakskov shipyard, which was also founded by the East Asiatic Company. The ship, at 4,450 DWT, was sent south and actually sailed the same route planned for the København: from Buenos Aires to Adelaide. However, it happened with stops at relevant islands to both sides of the planned voyage course. It was all with no result and not so much as just a stump that could be recognized being from the København. Nothing was found from the ship.

The East Asiatic Company had to, on the 6th of September 1929, officially announce that after search for the training ship had to be abandoned and that the ship was considered to have sunk with the loss of the 59 crew members (14 adults and 45 cadets). An official maritime inquiry was held in Copenhagen on the 15th of October 1929 without a new light on the disappearance of the ship.

During the years after there has been numerous theories about what could have gone wrong on board the København and the fact that no wreckage parts was never found after the large sailing ship, but all without it has led to any results. Not until the aforementioned shipwreck was found on the seabed using modern offshore technology.

The sailing ship København.

The København was built in 1921 by Ramage & Ferguson in Leith, Scotland as new building Nr. 256. She measured 112.40 meters in length – 134 meters, if the bow sprit was counted, the ship had a width of 15.0 meters and a draught of 8.20 meters. The ship was a 5-masted bark. That is, four mast with sails hanging on yardarms, while the aft mast had a schooner sail, with a total area of 4,744 sqm. It was not a “full sailing ship”, since the it was equipped with a diesel engine of 640 HP which, in the event of calm winds, could move the ship forward with six knots service speed. The København had a tonnage of 3,840 GRT and a deadweight tonnage of 5,125 DWT. On the penultimate voyage, the København had unloaded a cargo cement in Buenos Aires from EAC's own cement factory in Nørre Sundby Denmark.

It may be surprising that the EAC, who was otherwise a pioneer in the construction of ships with diesel machinery, allowed a sailing ship to be built in 1921. However, this is linked to the training of own officers. In those days, young seafarers had to undergo sailing time onboard a sailing ship in order to be able to take a mate's training. This rule led to the decision of the EAC to build its own ship, just as DFDS in 1915 took over the bark Viking (now the museum ship in Gothenburg) and that several French sailing ships had been transferred to the Danish flag, the so-called Havre-Barks (in Danish meaning “Oat Barks”), as these ships were owned in Le Havre, but managed on a French account from Marstal in Denmark. Here they had seafarers who were willing to man the ships, whereas French seafarers would rather sail with steam and motor ships.


Kilde: blad nr. 8 - August 2017 - Maritime Danmark.

For translation:
Thanks to marine engineer. Jesper Th. Petersen Seattle.

Se også de andre sider !!!

BAK TIL FORSIDEN FREM


   

 

     
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